Curse

dreamhunk · Mar 19, 2006, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karmakin

That's the problem, I dont' really see what all the "seperate it all" people want. A bunch more bland farming areas? Is that what it all comes down to for PvE?

That the idea of "competitive PvE", not that you're directly attacking other players, but seeing if your team can do better than everybody else, is offensive to people, quite frankly dilutes your whole argument. As someone who plays both PvP and PvE, and enjoys both, the competitive stages are something that I'm really looking forward to.

Is it that people just want more areas to min-farm? (Farm with a minimal size party for more drops)

No we want rpg, not more useless stuff! when some thing pvp effects you style of play sooo much it doesnot become rpg. It becomes something else! I can cear less about the greens. How I see the greens is just a bate stick. it tryinf to replace the lendary weapons and cursed weapons of rpg! There is no real value in stuff.

Str0b0 · Mar 19, 2006, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karmakin

That's the problem, I dont' really see what all the "seperate it all" people want. A bunch more bland farming areas? Is that what it all comes down to for PvE?

That the idea of "competitive PvE", not that you're directly attacking other players, but seeing if your team can do better than everybody else, is offensive to people, quite frankly dilutes your whole argument. As someone who plays both PvP and PvE, and enjoys both, the competitive stages are something that I'm really looking forward to.

Is it that people just want more areas to min-farm? (Farm with a minimal size party for more drops)

And that's your play style but you have to realize you are in a very very small minority. What we want is not more bland farming areas but more engaging PvE content, more missions, more quests and more importantly the freedom to play those without worrying about getting sucker punched by PvP. It happens to us all the time and it look like it is going to happen to us in Factions in a big way. I don't think A Net should worry about PvP content period. PvP brings it's own content. They just have to set conditions and that's it. Afvter that you PvP people can spend hours at a time killing each other in new and inventive ways. That just doesn't cut it for the hardcore PvE player. We don't want to do the same thing over and over again. I was elated when they released tombs and Sorrows Furnace because it added new areas to explore, not because I wanted to farm and grind. The problem is after a certain point the only incentive to keep playing is finding new more powerful items hence most of the farming. I doubt seriously most people farm for profit either in game or real world. It's a side effect of farming yes but I am willing to bet most farmers just want to find a new weapon for one of their characters or maybe they need ecto for 15k armor.

I don't want to kill other players. there is just no point in it to me. It's always going to be the same monotonous crap. Target monks first casters second maybe worry about a tough warrior, lather, rinse, repeat. BOOOOOORING!, at least to me anyway. If you like it that's fine but you have to understand the things you like I despise and the fact that PvP has been responsible for us getting screwed over in "balance" updates nine times out of ten doesn't exactly endear PvP to me at all. We are two very different camps here, the PvP and the PvE. The PvE is definately in the majority with PvP coming in second and the middle of the road players being the smallest minority in the game. I think the entire game would benefit from less integration of the two wildly differing concepts and more seperation of the two. I would like to see PvP compeltely isolated from PvE. I no longer want to have my favorite skills nerfed because someone in PvP whines about balance. I don't want to have a useful item suddenly less useful because it unbalances PvP. I don't care about PvP. The only time I care about it is when we don't have favor and then I usually only care for about an hour and I certainly don't care enough to actually participate in it. Now if I was the only one that felt that way I could understand the reluctance of ANet to try to meet my requests. The fact of the matter is though that I'm not alone. There are hundreds of people who think the same thing. Hundreds of consumers with 53 dollars in their sweaty little hand wondering if Factions is going to be worth it. So far the FAQ has only made it look worse. The fact that ANet won't even step in and say." No it's not going to work that way." makes it even more suspicious. I'm not asking for a pre-release disclosure of all the aaliance and faction mechanics. I just want a confirmation or denial of my suspicions.

The fact of the matter is the game has outgrown the concept they originally intended for it and rather than grow with their consumer base they are instead trying to push this vision on us. I mean it all sounded wonderful, you know the whole fight other players and kill monsters too. then I found out it was team based and I felt that was just a bit too much. I can barely stand half the people in the game let alone work with them. I think it would have benefited from a Diablo style PvP interface where it was one on one, well mostly anyway. Unfortunately the skill sets don't allow for that. There are some professions that simply are not effective damager dealers and never will be effective damage dealers. They are support characters. They make the party more effective. Read that as not a PvP character. So team based PvP is the only way to go with the way the skills are set.

I don't think we are asking for much here. We want more content, less integration with PvP, less contigency on PvP and a little more respect since we are, in fact, the majority in this game. At the very least they could issue a statement regarding the Alliance mission to set our minds at ease. At this point I don't even care if they flat out lie to us, at least it shows that they are reading this and that they are aware of the unease amongst the PvE players.

midnight caretaker · Mar 19, 2006, 07:32 PM // 19:32

Whats the point of trying to get into pvp? I have tried and since I have no rank I cant get in a decent group. Therefore I get into a crappy group die and never get faction or rank. Therefore unless you have someone to farm fame for u it is pointless to start. Besides that fame can be farmed so I dont see why people want to see it anyways it does not mean you are any good anyways. I know tons of pve players that feel the same way and dont bother to even try to pvp. Wheres the patch to try to fix this??????????????

dreamhunk · Mar 19, 2006, 07:45 PM // 19:45

ends meaning less fighting to rpg player = hack and slash to RPG players mindless killing, with out reason.

Like I said pvp players do not, can not under stand RPG players or PVE players. Good exmple AOE update.

note it says "Guild Wars focuses on what's fun in a role-playing game"

http://www.gweurope.net/images/preor...20-%20Back.jpg

To rpg players character developments are way more important!

WasAGuest · Mar 19, 2006, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karmakin

That's the problem, I dont' really see what all the "seperate it all" people want. A bunch more bland farming areas? Is that what it all comes down to for PvE?

Not at all. What we want is more content to adventure in. Adventure is a key element. Entering an arena, holding an area, scoring points, out lasting someone, or generally competing is not what we want. These above things are not content, they are tools meant to distract, entertain and give those that compete something they enjoy. I do not mean "distract" as a bad thing, I play games to distract myself and relax. Those above mentioned playstyles (all of which are PvP based) are not relaxing for some, nor are the fun.
The idea that because it's fun for some so it's fun for all, is a little odd. You say farming is bland (I agree with that), others say PvP is bland, no matter how it is made or spun. To me, PvP is worse than watching paint dry, worse than stubbing ones' big toe. It's not fun, at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karmakin

That the idea of "competitive PvE", not that you're directly attacking other players, but seeing if your team can do better than everybody else, is offensive to people, quite frankly dilutes your whole argument. As someone who plays both PvP and PvE, and enjoys both, the competitive stages are something that I'm really looking forward to.

Exactly. It's what we (most 100% PvE'ers) do not want. You said it yourself, you enjoy both. I, and many others, do not. It's what we are trying to get confirmation from Anet on how the system will work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karmakin

Is it that people just want more areas to min-farm? (Farm with a minimal size party for more drops)

Farming is generally not done for fun, for me anyway. It's done to achieve a goal. Getting that 15k or FoW armor requires a great deal of farming. Once you get that armor or meet the goal, then yea, fun begins. But killing in tedium to get what one desires is not fun. Which brings us back too...
More content for PvE. PvP mini games are not going to cut it. It's not content for those who don't enjoy it. In fact, it's in the way; "blocking" PvEers from what content there is. Blocking, in that PvP must be done to unlock the areas that there are - this is present in GWP now, with FoW and UW. I would much prefer to have areas present that my guild and I can go adventure in when we all log in without the need for PvP mini-games and PvP battles dictating where we can go. I think many others are feeling the same, as the posts here seem to point.

Duly Thankful · Mar 19, 2006, 08:37 PM // 20:37

The lack of response from Anet on the mechanics of the territory control in GW:F is worrying to any PvE player, myself included. I have never been to UW, FoW, HoH or any of the other PvP acronyms as I dont like PvP, and I am quite happy to play GW:P my own way. I like to log in and relax, either doing some gentle farming, a little skill capping, maybe help out a Guildie or just explore. I suspect a lot of other people are the same. With little to no information of how GW:F will work I shall do the sensible thing and wait until its out so that I can read player reviews. If I like what I read I will buy it. If I don't, I won't.

As regards RPG, my personal opinion is that Guild Wars is not an RPG at all. If you want RPG, go join a text-based Mud and do it properly. Hack'n'slash with customisable armour does not mean its a RPG. I find the idea of role-playing my character laughable, as any attempt to do so would be drowned in the mindless spam in towns and the impatience of 99.9% of the PUG's in missions.

Whatever the format of GW:F is, Anet have proved again and again that they listen to their playerbase (almost unheard of) and act quickly to put right anything major (totally unheard of). I have a feeling that an awful lot of people will prefer to wait before buying GW:F, and if the numbers dont match Anet's expectations there will be changes made.

PS.
I am totally fed up of the message 'Waiting for hyperbidder.com...' Someone shoot the poor thing and put it out of its misery.

Xenrath · Mar 19, 2006, 08:45 PM // 20:45

I'd also be curious to hear from an Anet rep the percent of (active) players playing PvE compared to PvP; is PvE a lot more popular than Anet anticipated? Less? Potatoes?

King Kong · Mar 19, 2006, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duly Thankful

The lack of response from Anet on the mechanics of the territory control in GW:F is worrying to any PvE player, myself included

Agree with you there! All we get is Gaile saying they treat PvP and PvE the same. I think they favor PvP more but thats just me...

Im gonna wait too to see how it all pans out, i just hope it turns out good because i love this game

Hanok Odbrook · Mar 19, 2006, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamhunk

I have found a picture of the beta box for people to read. here is a link

http://www.gweurope.net/images/preor...20-%20Back.jpg

I had just found it I also placed it on the above post I had made.

note it says "Guild Wars focuses on what's fun in a role-playing game"

Indeed, then they go on to list what GW offers and what it doesn't right under that. Nowhere on the box does it say GW offers or promises to offer what you are looking for. Anyone is more than welcome to actual Role-Play in game with their character - just as they are in WOW. I see no difference in GW than I do with any game with the RPG label in the last 20 years.

What you are actually looking for is not RPG, but a Dynamic Gaming Environment where every action that your character does in game has some sort of effect on the game world. Wizardry V had the very basic idea of that with the introduction of NPC's all of whom could be killed. Of course, doing so may not allow you to complete certain parts of the game unless you rezzed them to get a certain item or what have you, but the choice was left to you. A dynamic environment doesn't necissitate role-playing, nor does it exclude it. GW is the same way - it doesn't require someone to actually take on the personality of their character, but nothing stops anyone from doing so in game - that's why there's a huge petition thread asking for specialized RPG only districts.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

M3lk0r · Mar 19, 2006, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Just a note: I remember reading FrogTalk some time back saying that their reports show that the majority of GW players do BOTH PvE and PvP.

As someone who has completed the PvE storyline with 4 chars and now PvPs (or atleast tries to) I have come to the conclusion that neither is perfect.
PvE needs, as was said before, more end game content and MUCH harder challenges.
Whereas PvP needs a general design change that is more friendly to the new player. At the moment rank is rubbish and unless you have special contacts finding good GvG guilds is impossible.

There are people on both sides of the argument with a very narrow frame of mind refusing to understand the other's perspective.

Andy_M · Mar 19, 2006, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire Childe

WasAGuest, I actually like the favour of the gods system. It made underworld and fissure feel like a special treat for having your country kick ass in halls. But then I guess, some people dont see it that way and are just anxious to get on and solo farm ectos. Time is money after all. MEH.

I have never been to UW or FOW and won't while the favour system is still implemented, it just feels wrong that a PvP facet affects a PvE area. And I could not care less about farming ectos either as I don't like the look of the 'super special bonus gold sin...er FOW armour' at all.

Str0b0 · Mar 19, 2006, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3lk0r

Just a note: I remember reading FrogTalk some time back saying that their reports show that the majority of GW players do BOTH PvE and PvP.

well the key words there would probably be some time back. Things have definately changed now. A lot of the hardcore PvP people, who participated in PvE only to unlock better equipment, up and left the game entirely because of some issues over a few of the more infamous balancing updates. Now I would have to say that hardcore PvE only players are the majority.

WasAGuest · Mar 20, 2006, 01:41 PM // 13:41

I'm hopeful to get an answer from Gaile Grey in this thread (thread link below). Ken Dai posted a question to Gaile about the faction control. She hasn't answered it as of yet, but maybe she will and spread some light on the issue of "locked" content, these PvP-mini games and the apparent* lack of PvE missions/quests (real missions and quests, not PvP mini-games that are taking place of the true content PvE'ers are looking for).

* Apparent in that with all the PvP-mini games, and locked up content, it seems there is little to do after you reach a certain point.

We WILL be able to try out a couple of Story Missions as well as those PvP mini games (if your looking forward to that) and our characters will start at level 20 already - see the thread above. I'm happy to see Anet isn't blocking us from seeing what we are concerned about. This eases my "worries" a bit. Here's hoping.

Maybe, just maybe, and I hoping greatly, much of my worries and concerns will be negated. I so want to play an Assassin, but despise PvP so greatly, (it's so boring) I'll not purchase Factions if the end game is PvP based. I'm rambling now... not enough coffee yet...

Here's the thread and question from Ken Dai: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...=139940&page=2

Edit: Not awake yet it seems, forgot to paste the link when I was done. :P

WasAGuest · Mar 20, 2006, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamhunk

I have found a picture of the beta box for people to read. here is a link

http://www.gweurope.net/images/preor...20-%20Back.jpg

I had just found it I also placed it on the above post I had made.

note it says "Guild Wars focuses on what's fun in a role-playing game"

Even better; send yourself a Preview invite and read the email. It's for Factions and the email refers to roleplaying several times and even states it won RPG awards. So, from beta on, it seem roleplayers are still on the list of people they want to bring in (not just PvPers).
Why reply to this now? Cause with Gaile's post earlier, I am in hopes of seeing this "elite" content and see if it is as I think it is - PvP. So, I sent myself an invite (as I am out of slots) and thought I would share the email "roleplaying" comment.

Here's a quote:
"With an innovative design that focuses on adventuring, exploration, player skill, and teamwork, Guild Wars has earned numerous "Best of" awards, including "PC Game of the Year," "MMO of the Year," and "RPG of the Year.""

As a disclaimer and to be fair, it also mentions this:
"With well over one million players around the world, Guild Wars offers a massive fantasy world to explore and a unique blend of online cooperative roleplaying and competitive PvP battles."

Want the full email, send yourself an invite and see.

dreamhunk · Mar 21, 2006, 04:02 PM // 16:02

I think the rpg in the game just to get better it just too much like a hack and slash, needs more adenture. Anet sees this game as rpg, that being said the first gw has a weak rpg tot it. Hopefully anet improves the rpg.

Count to Potato · Mar 21, 2006, 06:41 PM // 18:41

pve is for rpgers and pvp is for people who like to play against others, simple no?

Str0b0 · Mar 21, 2006, 07:57 PM // 19:57

OK 9 pages and no response from Gaile or anyone else on the ANet Staff. That officially pisses me off. I'm going to cancel my pre order today. I will not be buying factions nor will I continue to play my existing Guild Wars account. One person doesn't matter to them but the principle is sound. I refuse to purchase a game that tries to bait me or force me into participating in an aspect of it I do not like and I refuse to purchase a game where the creators can't even be bothered to answer a simple question with a yes or a no. I once had a lot of respect for ANet for their customer relations. That just went straight down the toilet. I do not think I will ever purchase an Arena Net or NC Soft product again. It's been fun here folks. I've met some interesting people. I've made some friends and I've made some people mad. No more Guild Wars kind of makes this place pointless for me though. Good Luck in your future endeavours and I can only hope factions brings you something you will enjoy.

eudas · Mar 22, 2006, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

OK 9 pages and no response from Gaile or anyone else on the ANet Staff.

Unless I'm drastically misremembering things, Gaile *has* posted on this thread, at about page 4 or 5. scan through the pages and CTRL+F search for "gaile", and you'll probably find it.

eudas

edit:
i must be misremembering things; i searched the 9 pages and can't find a post from her. I may have been thinking about a different thread (maybe the sound issues thread...)

eudas

Vaga · Mar 22, 2006, 05:52 AM // 05:52

As far as I know we will be able to do most factions things on the preview weekend, so before you pre-order the game why don't you see if you like it first. If you can't play this weekend, I am sure many people will write up everything they found out about it so you should be able to figure out what they have done with PVE in factions, and whether or not you like it or not.

Minus Sign · Mar 22, 2006, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by eudas

Unless I'm drastically misremembering things, Gaile *has* posted on this thread...

(Saw your edit. You're right) She hasn't and won't. To give people the answers they are asking for, Gaile would have to provide such in-depth analysis about GWF and its play system as to create a spoiler for those who haven't yet played it.

Once you start down that road, you're writting a walkthrough for a game that isn't on the shelves yet. Cart before horse.